Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

[Calhere]

So this one is one of the options Im looking at

http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=OD16


I also like something like this but not quite like that

http://www.cmdboats.com/rw211.htm?**...930446d8e6db31


Im also thinking of using my own design if anyone has ever made plans for a boat I could really use your help. What I was thinking on my design is a 20' center cabin 8' spanning the width of the boat hatch at both ends with a head, single rack and a counter with a sink and counter top area to set up my Coleman stove, and in cabin cockpit. 5 ft fishing area on both bow and stern ends, not sure weather id want an inboard or an E Tech outboard???? id want 50 gal fresh water, and 50 gal waste water, 40 gal fuel tank and 2 livewells one for bait one for catch. Im thinking when im done with this (several years from now) of doing charters....

Any feedback is more then appreciated.

[tashasdaddy]

that's a lot of stuff to get into a 20 footer, also a lot of weight, for the size. if i were going to do fishing charters, i would want a walk around. this way you customer would be able to fight a fish, in rougher water, where the seas would make you stay on a certain heading.

[Calhere]

Ok so how many feet would you suggest? Also I would also need to make sure the boat is trailerable, (the waste and water tanks will be empty so that will cut down on the tow weight and after thought probably don't need so much waste and water tanks, maybe 25 each? and in the cabin im just wanting the john part of the head dont need a shower in it, im not a spoiled rich kid ;p. and the bunk i can fit in a 2' by 6' bunk did it for years.

[salty87]

might want to start with the regs if you're wanting to use it as a charter.

inboard would be nice for fishing all the way around but you lose cabin space, unless you put a table on the engine box or something.

how boat a bigger one of these

[Calhere]

I know that's a joke but honestly that's exactly what I have pictured in my mind, a bigger one of those, I've been looking at inboard diesels and I can get about 500 miles out of a 40 gal tank with a 30 HP but at 15 to 20 miles out would i want more then 30 HP? On one side its just a fishing boat, on the other side what if I run into unexpected rough water/weather and i need to haul .... out of there?

[salty87]

I know that's a joke

nope, i was just going to say mini tug but copied a pic instead. that was the first one i found that wasn't an o/b. i've seen much nicer ones in pics before, just didn't come up in the search.

[Calhere]

Actually if I knew a lick about architecture of boats id alter one of these three plans one is a fishing boat the others a lobster boat the others a tug along (mini yacht) tug boat theme, which I really like however it is not built for sea and I'm looking to do tuna fishing and what not.

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=775

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=319

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=92

[180shabah]

The double eagle you linked too seems like a good fit for your needs/wants. Also, I don't think you will find any other designers that can offer you detail and support that Glen-L does. Read through thier forums and webletter archives, just about every possible problem/topic is covered.

With that said there is one more you might want to look into. It is the Surf Scoter (there are several lenghts) by devlin.
Scroll down to the "Powerboats & Trawlers" section

FWIW - I have been looking at the Czarina 30 as well as a couple of Glen-L designs. Just gotta get the home renovations finished, Or so I thought, we now have college to think about......

[Calhere]

That looks like what I'm looking but about 5 feet shorter, but maybe the longer will be better.

[tashasdaddy]

the surf scooter 26 would be perfect. people chartering want a little comfort also, the 102 hp Volvo would get you the fishing grounds quick enough, the boat will ride very well, enough room in cabin for people to get out of the weather. the boat is very trailerable. you could get a 6 pack license with that boat, which is the minimum license you will have to have to charter anyway.

[Calhere]

not to mention it is a really nice boat so as I am new to building boats, electronics, what would i need bare minimum? As after taking on a project of this size I'm going to want to get her in the water, yet my wife probably wont spring for all the luxury gadgets up front. Also I'm new to inboards are they difficult to install? could I substitute for a smaller tank as 90 gals might be a little to big as I dont plan on going out more then 25 miles and from what I've read you can get 500 miles out of a 40 gallon diesel, so that's 2 weeks right there with fuel to spare.

going to price out materials at a couple places now. I'm really excited about this as I've been looking for a part time job with a cool boss since I retired in 06 and this sounds like it will work 2 3 weeks a month.

[Mark42]

I spent a lot of time researching boat building from scratch because I could not find what I wanted on the market.

One of the things that I reaized that will save thousands of dollars is to buy a cheap "salvage" boat with the hull shape you want. It might even come with a trailer. Completely gut the hull and rebuild from the stringers up. That will give you a good strong fiberglass hull that will out perform any of the simple plywood home-built hulls. Then you build the cabin of your choice on top. You will know what the capcity of the hull is from the manufacturer/hin plate, and build your boat to be within those parameters accordingly.

The simple hull costs a bundle because nearly all the home build plans call for epoxy and glass. Epoxy is expensive and you will need gallons of it. Glass is not too expensive, but you need a lot of it and it adds up fast.

Just something to think about.

[jonesg]

I would start with something like this free bare hull.

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/boa/935689969.html

Log onto craigslist in your general area and type "free" in the boat section.
Lots of free stuff to be had, then all you do is design and fit/finish.

[Stoutcat]

Hi Calhere,

I think JonesG nailed it... Get something cheap/free and rebuild to suit...

Still, an alum Bartender would be sweet...

Alan

[tashasdaddy]

you will have to have all the coast guard required equipment, plus navigation, radio, radar. offshore a squall or fog can come up quickly, and leave you totally lost. i have been out on a 60 footer, and not be able to see the bow of the boat from the helm.

[tmcalavy]

The Tolman Skiff, hardly a skiff really, is also a good design...built for use on inland and offshore waters in Alaska. Google the name and you'll get some hits that show home-built ones in progress in a finished.

[Calhere]

The Tolman Skiff is nice so is the bartender yet, I am still really liking the Devlin as I plan on staying on the boat two weeks a month as I live 2 hours from the bay and well the commute to San Fran every morning is ummm to say the least absolutely horrible. But from the recommendations from another site guys that fish the SF Bay I really need to look for something that can withstand constant rough water?

[Calhere]

After several days of searching finding alot of nice boats i finally found a place where there is free software to help you build

your

perfect boat it is really cool stuff and thought maybe it would be helpful for others as well. heres the link http://boatbuilding.eigenstart.nl/

[cprince]

I would like to float this idea out to you; Aluminum Boat.

Light weight and strong, much more "trailer-able" than any fiberglass of the same size.You can build in the cold or warm. No resin stench. You dont have to build a mold (if you are going that way...) and the strength cant be beat.

You could also resale an aluminum a lot easier that a fiberglass. Aluminum will take a pounding and not fail in all temperatures.

The more I look at it, the more likely I will be to build an aluminum boat from scratch.

Whatever you choose to do; good luck and I look forward to seeing lots of pictures!!!

**EDIT**
Check these designs out; http://www.custom-aluminum-boats.com...at-design.html

[ondarvr]

What kind of a budget are you working with? Are you more interested in building a boat or being a guide? Have you researched which boat designs other guides use for this type of fishing? Have you done this type of fishing?

The answers to these questions may help you get started in the right direction.

[GO OVRIT]

This is one of my favorite designs. http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=CS23 They have plans for a 25 also. You get plenty of room to fish all the way around the boat, and you can have a v'berth to get out of the weather. Its a great design for rough water too.

500 miles on 40 gallons would be nice, but doesn't sound very realistic on a 20+ footer able to take rough water and not be scary slow. My 24 burns closer to 80 gallons going 40 miles out, troll for 4-5 hours and 40 miles back in. Thats with a cruise speed of around 22-23 knots. I know diesels would be more effiecient, but the initial cost is pretty high.

[Calhere]

I actually got those specs off of study plans for the Devlin Surf Scooter on the 105 HP Volvo Penta 22 Series. I'm sure it wont be exactly that but would have to be somewhere close on the take side of things.

[erikgreen]

Well, I'm planning on building a variant of a Bateau C19 this winter.

I like the Bateau (Jacques Mertens) designs because they're strong, lightweight, and designed for amateurs to build. Plus there's a really good community on line that helps you with build problems. Like this board, except for building Bateau boats.

As far as what you want... consider that the tendency with most people getting a custom boat is to design in everything they want in a boat. I sure am. But if this is your first scratch build, it's going to be hard to build anyway, even without a ton of custom mods and the kitchen sink thrown in. Consider building it to the exact plan you get, then modify it after.

For what you list in your first post, you are going to need a pretty big boat. You just can't fit all that in a 20 footer. A 30 or 40, maybe. But that's a big boat to build, and won't be easy to handle by yourself.

Where are you going to run charters? If you have a commercial captain's license you already know the requirements, but if you don't.... pretty much you're allowed to have up to 6 people on any non documented (documented as in Coast Guard documentation) boat if you have a commercial license. Even if you have a 60 footer, you can't have more unless the boat is documented.

To get a documented boat (specifically what's called a COI, or certificate of inspection) your boat has to have a number of tests done, plus it must be inspected while it's being built, and photo documented. You have to arrange beforehand with the Coast Guard to get all that done. The tests (mostly stability tests) cost in the tens of thousands of dollars to perform, and must be done on an exemplar of the model boat you're using or the boat itself.

So you see where this is going... I guarantee NO home built boat plans set has been documented this way... you're going to have to build the boat, pay for inspections, photo document, pay for testing, and pay the fees to get the paperwork done if you want to carry more than 6 people. I'm guessing you won't be doing that.

Soooo... probably you want to carry just a few folks out out. That's good, just make sure you get your commercial license first.

I'd suggest you decide what you want to do with the boat in the next few years... if you're going to charter, build a nice charter boat... 40 feet will hold 6 people nicely, have space for livewells and fresh/black water, a full head, small kitchen, etc. People paying for fishing or whatever want a nice boat. It's still going to cost the world to build, but you'll have a very high quality, exactly what you want boat at the end. Be aware you'll still have trouble getting insurance for a charter boat that you built yourself, though.

If you just want your own perfect boat, I'd suggest a design in the 20-25 foot range... that'd be big enough for a cuddy cabin or similar, with a bunk, porta pottie, and maybe a 20 gallon freshwater tank.

One outboard is fine, consider two if you want redundancy... it's ok to give up, go home and fix a broken engine if you're going out yourself, but paying customers are less understanding.

Wrapping up.. I'd suggest you pick a design you'd like to use now, then buy plans and see what you can do with it design wise. You'll want to lay out your bunks, tank space, fuel tank, etc. before you start to build.

Erik

[Calhere]

I would like to float this idea out to you; Aluminum Boat.

Light weight and strong, much more "trailer-able" than any fiberglass of the same size.You can build in the cold or warm. No resin stench. You dont have to build a mold (if you are going that way...) and the strength cant be beat.

You could also resale an aluminum a lot easier that a fiberglass. Aluminum will take a pounding and not fail in all temperatures.

The more I look at it, the more likely I will be to build an aluminum boat from scratch.

Whatever you choose to do; good luck and I look forward to seeing lots of pictures!!!

**EDIT**
Check these designs out; http://www.custom-aluminum-boats.com...at-design.html

Here is my problem with the aluminum boats, I don't have the skill or the tools to feel safe with the completed project. I have meat experience but it was all steel and what not minor MIG welding experience and no TIG experience, MIG and TIG welders are probably the most efficient for aluminum. However if I stick with Stitch and glue I have all of the tools needed as well as a large wealth of knowledge and experience on those tools

[Calhere]

Well, I'm planning on building a variant of a Bateau C19 this winter.

I like the Bateau (Jacques Mertens) designs because they're strong, lightweight, and designed for amateurs to build. Plus there's a really good community on line that helps you with build problems. Like this board, except for building Bateau boats.

As far as what you want... consider that the tendency with most people getting a custom boat is to design in everything they want in a boat. I sure am. But if this is your first scratch build, it's going to be hard to build anyway, even without a ton of custom mods and the kitchen sink thrown in. Consider building it to the exact plan you get, then modify it after.

For what you list in your first post, you are going to need a pretty big boat. You just can't fit all that in a 20 footer. A 30 or 40, maybe. But that's a big boat to build, and won't be easy to handle by yourself.

Where are you going to run charters? If you have a commercial captain's license you already know the requirements, but if you don't.... pretty much you're allowed to have up to 6 people on any non documented (documented as in Coast Guard documentation) boat if you have a commercial license. Even if you have a 60 footer, you can't have more unless the boat is documented.

To get a documented boat (specifically what's called a COI, or certificate of inspection) your boat has to have a number of tests done, plus it must be inspected while it's being built, and photo documented. You have to arrange beforehand with the Coast Guard to get all that done. The tests (mostly stability tests) cost in the tens of thousands of dollars to perform, and must be done on an exemplar of the model boat you're using or the boat itself.

So you see where this is going... I guarantee NO home built boat plans set has been documented this way... you're going to have to build the boat, pay for inspections, photo document, pay for testing, and pay the fees to get the paperwork done if you want to carry more than 6 people. I'm guessing you won't be doing that.

Soooo... probably you want to carry just a few folks out out. That's good, just make sure you get your commercial license first.

I'd suggest you decide what you want to do with the boat in the next few years... if you're going to charter, build a nice charter boat... 40 feet will hold 6 people nicely, have space for livewells and fresh/black water, a full head, small kitchen, etc. People paying for fishing or whatever want a nice boat. It's still going to cost the world to build, but you'll have a very high quality, exactly what you want boat at the end. Be aware you'll still have trouble getting insurance for a charter boat that you built yourself, though.

If you just want your own perfect boat, I'd suggest a design in the 20-25 foot range... that'd be big enough for a cuddy cabin or similar, with a bunk, porta pottie, and maybe a 20 gallon freshwater tank.

One outboard is fine, consider two if you want redundancy... it's ok to give up, go home and fix a broken engine if you're going out yourself, but paying customers are less understanding.

Wrapping up.. I'd suggest you pick a design you'd like to use now, then buy plans and see what you can do with it design wise. You'll want to lay out your bunks, tank space, fuel tank, etc. before you start to build.

Erik

With the help of everyone here and around a year of research (as this has been on my mind for quite awhile) I have several plans picked out ranging from 23' to 40' I have also contacted the coastguard about documenting the boat and like you said way to expensive. For insurance reasons (I have already got 3 quotes) I will be keeping the passengers under 5 even though with a 6 pack I can legally carry 6, As stated in my post earlier I'm planing on working out of the SF Bay (off the same pier as the Alcatraz ferry uses Business plan kicking in.) Had not really thought about the dual engine whether I go in or out...so that is definitely something I need to look at.